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Post by beccilouise on Jan 20, 2017 16:03:58 GMT -5
So, recently, we have begun to see signs of bonding and pair territoriality with Maya. While she will happily sit on either of our shoulders and join in with cuddle time, she is beginning to show some protectiveness towards me. If she is on my shoulder and David tries to illicit kisses from her, she will lunge and sometimes nip. She has never draw blood, but it still hurts! Sometimes she will also bite his fingers if he goes to retrieve her off one of 'her' places (like the coffee table) where she won't do this with me.
Understandably, this is frustrating for David. He wants a good relationship with her too, but his reactions are not always a help. He will often react by saying 'ow! Maya!' sharply. Sometimes, he is good at 'launching' (we've taught her to fly off our finger or to respond to a controlled 'launch' so she flies away from us. We learned this from the parrot wizard) her away if she bites, but will often go and tell her off. I have to admit, I could probably be better at dealing with it when she nips and pecks at me, but often it is bossy and not territorial. If she really lunges or nips, I return her to a stand or put her down and turn my back on her or ignore her for a minute or so.
The thing is that I am the primary carer for both our animals. I clean them, feed them, ensure they are healthy, and am mostly responsible for handling them. 90% of the time, I am the one that will get Maya out of her cage. She comes for walks with me and if I am there and David is not, she is out, whereas it's not always the same the other way around! I know she is still an adolescent, that preferences may change and that it isn't always the primary caregiver who is the favourite, but the problem is that I don't think David will want to spend the time developing a training relationship with Maya that might control her territorial behaviour towards him. While she obeys my vocal commands, responds to changes in my voice and often comes to me when called, she basically disregards anything he wants her to do. Are there any tricks (bribery, perhaps?) That I could suggest to David that don't require him to involve himself in training but might help to lessen Maya's territorial aggression towards him? It is a very recent thing (in the last three or four days) that we've started noticing it, so hopefully it is not an embedded behaviour yet.
Phew! They do keep you guessing, don't they?
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Post by biteybird on Jan 21, 2017 4:43:09 GMT -5
Your situation is so similar to ours it's spooky! My hubby puts fresh water and pellets in Bonnie's day cage prior to her being transferred there from her sleeping cage, but aside from that it's mainly me that interacts with her. This is partly because she attacks and bites him more than she does me, so of course it has become a self-sustaining cycle of him staying away from her, then her biting him when he lets her out of the cage. I've suggested that she might be biting more because he is paying more attention to either the TV or the iPad when she's out and, really, she needs dedicated interaction when she comes out of the cage. Although we've agreed that this might be the case, hubby hasn't altered his habits, so it's not possible to judge what effect increased interaction might have upon their relationship. If Maya is cage territorial it might be worth testing her behaviour out on neutral ground, that is, in another room away from her cage. We are lucky because Bonnie will run straight into a beanie if either of us opens her cage door and holds the beanie in the door opening (which makes it easier to transfer her from one room to another). Maybe Maya could spend a short time (e.g. 5 minutes) with David in another room without you present and no cages or other distractions. Then he could give her a favourite treat (in our case that would be a pumpkin seed) before she goes back to the other room. I don't know if this would work, it's just that if there's a pattern of attacking one person in a certain place then changing something might break the cycle(?). My hubby and I have discussed him going into another room with Bonnie for 5 minutes a day, and he said it was a good idea, but so far he hasn't made any effort to do it....I guess I live in hope.  |
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Post by Jan and Shah on Jan 21, 2017 5:05:17 GMT -5
For what it is worth, Biteybird mentioned that her husband's attention is sometimes distracted when doing anything with Bonnie. A few years ago I had a lot of problems with Shah - getting him out of the cage or doing things with him would set him off screaming. I finally realised that he wanted eye contact with me so that my attention was fully on him.
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Post by easttex on Jan 21, 2017 5:23:26 GMT -5
I don't know any great solutions, given the circumstances, but you might take a look at this: www.goodbirdinc.com/calendar.htmlThere's a session Feb 4 that looks very relevant. She's a great trainer. |
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Post by beccilouise on Jan 22, 2017 6:35:22 GMT -5
Thank you everyone, these are really good suggestions. Maya is a little cage territorial but nothing super alarming. Her cage is in the pet room and she spends most of her time with us in the living room on her play stand. She's pretty good and 'transient company' but does also have times where she'll fly around like a nutcase and chew on things unless I sit down and play with her, but it's always me that will play with her.
We are trying the following:
- David will not try to pick her up or give her kisses when she is on my shoulder or when she is eating
- He approaches her slowly with his hand and says 'step up', a command which she knows
- He will offer her treats when he passes her or when he wants her to come to him
- We both praise her gushily when she is gentle with David
- If she nips, he calmly puts her on a perch or on the floor and ignores her for 2 or 3 minutes.
Even just over the last couple of days, she has been less aggressive towards him. It's not an accurate measure, and she will still have mad days, but I feel like it's also about respecting her preference and paying attention to her body language. The difficulty is (and David admits this) that he does care a little how Maya behaves around him, he wants her to like him, but he's not prepared to spend ages training her and developing guided instructional interaction in the same way that I am (and do) to help temper her. So far, thankfully, she has not drawn blood.
However, all your ideas are really good. I will look at the goodbird session, easttex, thank you so much for the suggestion. I've also booked a place on the next Think Parrots convention. Maya will be coming with me and there is a behavioural training session. David does also appreciate that Maya is really important to me, that I have not had a single panic attack since we brought Maya home and that she has been instrumental in helping me to manage my anxiety, so all this is just us trying to explore how best we keep her friendly. She's also not been outside and interacted with other people for a while because of the HN18 strain of bird flu in the UK, we've been advised to keep domestic birds inside for a little while. (the first day back out is going to be exciting!) so she's house bound at the moment, which doesn't help.
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Post by julianna on Jan 23, 2017 14:29:24 GMT -5
It seems that most Quakers will have a favorite person and even at times change favorites. My husband has never been Oscar's favorite and I think... that it does hurt his feelings. Oscar will only go to him if he knows that it is a short cut to me. lol...
Poor hubby... he gets the evil eye from Oscar every day. If Oscar is on me and my husband comes too close... I am the one who gets bit by Oscar as if it is my fault. If I am not in the house then Oscar is a different bird. Husband can feed him and make him step up and walk around with him. I have come home and found them both on the couch but as soon as Oscar sees me... the fun is over.
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Post by aaron on Jan 24, 2017 11:42:43 GMT -5
I will just jump in here and back up what Jan is saying about eye contact. Eye contact is extremely important to Cupcake, and I tend to be an easily distracted person at times... especially in periods of time when I'm not feeling well. She hates that. If I am not giving her the undivided attention she wants, especially if it goes on for days, she will become very vocally grumpy and her behavior will deteriorate. If there is a chance that David isn't giving this to her when they do interact, that alone could cause her to treat him differently.
It is a challenge, though, because the more undivided attention you give them, the more they expect it... so going back and forth doesn't work, I've found. Cupcake is pretty forgiving with me... I think on some level she knows that I'm not always feeling okay... but if she feels like I am consistently being dismissive rather than really looking her in the eye and genuinely interacting, she will find a way to make it clear that it's not ok.
I think part of why she initially decided to not hate my wife (which was her original inclination) was because at the time, my wife was much better (and continues to be) at giving her undivided and focused attention. It comes naturally to my wife, whereas for me I really need to consciously make an effort.
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Post by biteybird on Jan 25, 2017 4:12:59 GMT -5
... but if she feels like I am consistently being dismissive rather than really looking her in the eye and genuinely interacting, she will find a way to make it clear that it's not ok. I think part of why she initially decided to not hate my wife (which was her original inclination) was because at the time, my wife was much better (and continues to be) at giving her undivided and focused attention. It comes naturally to my wife, whereas for me I really need to consciously make an effort. I agree with Jan and Aaron here; there might be some sort of pattern with this, as my hubby doesn't really make a lot of consistent eye contact either (I think he has always been used to having dogs, most of whom are quite content to sit at one's feet snoozing - NOT quakers!). Beccilouise, it sounds like you and David have come up with a great action plan. It's very positive that your health has been improved since having Maya. It just goes to show you that the enjoyment and benefits of having these - sometimes psycho! - little birds far outweigh any negatives we might feel are present at times. |
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Post by beccilouise on Jan 29, 2017 18:13:51 GMT -5
Thanks everyone! Maya has been a lot better recently. She is funny though, she'll still look at me (as if for reassurance) before returning David's kisses and will only offer him a kiss if I say 'it's ok, go on!'.
She does get into absolute mischief if I don't look at her or talk to her or offer her kisses for like, five minutes. She got REALLY CROSS today when the bunny got a hug from David and she didn't! She's also back to attacking my face if I'm wearing glasses but I'm trying to condition her to them again, it may just be because I lost them for a bit so I've not been wearing them for a while. They are funny aren't they!
Her other trick is, if I put the roll on deodorant bottle on the table after using it, he will race towards it, beak first and beat it off the table. She will then fly onto the floor and continue to beat it up on the carpet, yelling at it as loudly as she can. It normally takes me about five minutes to remove it from her as I'm laughing so hard. It is hysterically funny. She was absolutely adorable today. Tomorrow is another day, but we soldier on! I love her even when she bites my finger because I won't give her any toast.
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Post by biteybird on Jan 30, 2017 1:43:35 GMT -5
Yes, they can be EXTREMELY feisty! Bonnie is a classic case of 'Bi-polar' bird; we never know if she'll be in a good mood from one day to the next. |
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Post by julianna on Jan 30, 2017 14:11:43 GMT -5
It sounds like Maya does the exact same thing as Oscar does but with the empty toilette paper roll. He will attack that thing over and over until I kick it out of the room and tell him that it is "all gone". Then he is soooo proud... lol
I usually let him do this every day because it helps gets some of his frustrations out and I think everyone should feel a little proud each and every day.
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Post by biteybird on Jan 31, 2017 4:38:28 GMT -5
It sounds like Maya does the exact same thing as Oscar does but with the empty toilette paper roll. "Toilette"...hmm, Julianna are you French-Canadian? I love French. [Sorry to everyone for digressing from the subject of this thread] |
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Post by julianna on Feb 4, 2017 14:00:49 GMT -5
Ha ha biteybird... you picked up on that eh?? lol. My husband is French Canadian however living with him for over 40 years I guess I have picked up a lot of it.
Personally I am Ukrainian.
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