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Post by jeannes on Aug 7, 2016 18:45:47 GMT -5
Starry and I have been doing so well. She wanted to be with me everywhere I was. Just this morning we were snuggling and she was perched next o me clicking her beak.
Just this afternoon she has started flying at me with her beak open, circling my head... Whenever I talk to her she bites whatever is nearest her. I'm not sure why this is and I am feeling really awful over it. I give her time outs for biting, lunging, and flying at me with beak open. She always comes out of time out worse...
Does anybody have tips to help her and me? I understand it is probably just 1 step forward, 2 steps back, but just wondering how to proceed so this behavior does not get worse!
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Post by biteybird on Aug 8, 2016 4:52:37 GMT -5
This seems quite common behaviour for quakers - and we have personal experience of it with Bonnie attacking my husband. Unfortunately we still have no idea why she does this. There is often a couple of days in a row when she is fine with him, but then she regresses back to attacking his hand/arm/head again.
As you've adopted Starry - and I recall you said that she was ignored and left in the cage most of the time (is that right?) - sadly, there is much you do not know about her situation over the last few years. She could be carrying a lot of 'baggage' and she has had also had a lot of sudden changes in a short time since you adopted her.
I wish I could help more, but for now I would stick with very short sessions of 'time out', as their attention span and behaviour-association is short. If she lands on you trying to attack, you could try the 'earthquake' manoevre (just move your body and arms so she has to take off again). When Bonnie attacks my hubby I either grab her with a tea towel or drop a beanie over her so she can't see. From there I just put her back in the cage for 5 minutes - during that time I don't respond to any noise she makes, or even make eye contact with her.
Be assured that it's not anything you're doing that's specifically wrong, it's just something that seems to happen with quakers...as time goes on you'll start to work out a pattern, hopefully. In our situation, the pattern is that hubby is usually sitting on the couch using the iPad and Bonnie is at a 'loose end' (so, attention-seeking behaviour).
Let us know how things go over the next few days. I know it can be very discouraging when your beloved pet does this - we're still struggling with this behaviour too, and we've had Bonnie since she was 8 weeks old (straight from the breeder).
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Post by jeannes on Aug 8, 2016 6:26:18 GMT -5
Imo she was a rescue but technically my friends dumped her on me. My friends had owned her 10 years. During that time they whistled to her constantly, she was in the family room, but was only let out every few months!
They also rarely cleaned her cage and bowls.
Anyway. I think she just has a bad day yesterday. She was grumpy about everything. I will keep doing the same things. The thing is, she wants to be close to me but also wants to bite me. She will fly and land on my bedside table when I am reading and chirp at me and be cute. But as soon as I get up to leave is when she does the attacking thing. Sometimes I can tell she just wants to be with me, sometimes it is obvious she wants to bite me!
I hope this goes away
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Post by biteybird on Aug 8, 2016 6:52:10 GMT -5
It sounds the same as with my husband - a kind of "love-hate" relationship. Starry is probably not used to the freedom she has now (after so many years locked up) and may be expecting it to end at any moment. She is kind of sabotaging herself in a way...try to remain consistent, as I know you're doing. You will both get through this, but I know that at the time it can seem overwhelming. One day at a time and hang in there! It is fantastic that you have given her a loving home; along with more attention than she's ever had since being a baby, most likely.
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Post by easttex on Aug 8, 2016 8:12:32 GMT -5
It's not unusual to get a honeymoon period with a rehomed parrot. It doesn't mean that what you are seeing now is the real her, though. I imagine there are at least a couple of things going on. One, she's feeling a bit more confident and is testing boundaries. Two, she probably doesn't really know how to behave herself. She most certainly is a rescue, and I would call her treatment in her previous home very abusive. I'd suggest treating all her time with you as training. Make sure you reward her for good behavior. A reward doesn't always have to be food. Some focused formal training would probably help, as well. It can be anything at all, as long as she has your total attention for a few minutes, and you reward every small increment in the right direction. And I'll differ with some advice you'll get and say rather than giving her time outs, ignore it to the extent you can. I think it's best in the long run if you do not respond at all. Even what you think of as a negative consequence is a reinforcement, and I think "reward the good and ignore the bad" is the best plan. The first post in this thread might be helpful to you: quakerparrotforum.com/thread/429/good-read-rescuesKeep on your happy face with her, and try hard to not show a fear of being bit. Another reference I really like is here: www.stfrancisanimalandbird.com/index.php/pet-resources/library/9-avian-care/84-my-parrot-bites-what-can-i-do
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Post by siobhan on Aug 8, 2016 17:43:19 GMT -5
That sounds like hormonal behavior to me. At least once a year, Clyde does this to me. Actually does his X-wing fighter impersonation and I can hardly go into the birds' room, which is not good, because then the other birds don't get any attention, and also the washer and dryer are in there! Usually we end up having to lock Clyde in his cage so I can play with the others and do laundry. It always passes in a few days to a week. He'll be testy for a few days before and a few days after, but the full-blown flying attacks are only for a few days. If someone else in the house can handle Starry without her doing this, have that person tend to her for three days or so and then you can try it again. Remember to never pet her tummy or her back, only her head, and for a while, maybe you shouldn't pet her at all. Interact in other ways. Play with toys with her or just talk to her.
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Post by jeannes on Aug 8, 2016 19:27:29 GMT -5
All of your replies are extremely helpful! Biteybird, I thought that might be it, she is finally becoming comfortable so now is being a brat ik kids do this. At her old home she never did this so I know it is not something that is normal for her. Easttex, I give her treats whenever she doesn't fly at me and when she doesn't lunge. As well as lots of verbal praise for every good thing she does. I plan on beginning target training sometime soon! I generally ignore it and leave, but at the same time sometimes I need to put her away so I can work without having to worry about having a bird fly at my head! That is exactly what I do with my horse! I will do it with her. I will read the links tonight! Thank you so much! Siobhan, I hope this is all it is but unfortunately I don't think it is :/ we will see!
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Post by aaron on Aug 10, 2016 17:28:55 GMT -5
I will second what Easttex said about time-outs... While we haven't dealt with this sort of behavior, we used to use time-outs a lot, and I used to suggest them to people, but I've come to realize they are of nebulous value most of the time. Ignoring is definitely the best approach, to the extent that it is possible.
If one is to use timeouts, I think they should last for a minute or less, and the goal should be to execute them repeatedly in a short period of time. It's more the act of putting them in the cage that is the measure than the time spent in the cage-- And repetition of this situation in a short period of time is what would cement the understanding, theoretically. So if you do continue to use time-outs, make them very short and plan to do them frequently... Don't make a show of it, no loud responses or quick movements. Treat it as a routine-- bird bites, bird gets caged calmly, bird sits for 15-30 seconds, bird comes out of cage.
All of that said, I think ignoring is the safest and most reliable approach. Just not always feasible when it comes to biting behaviors.
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Post by jeannes on Aug 11, 2016 5:14:15 GMT -5
Hi everybody! Just wanted to update you! I have not let her out in two days. Instead I sit in front of the cage several hours a day and talk to her. She has been cage aggressive all her life, but doing this I have been able to put my hand right next to her cage! I can ever give her treats through the bars! This is amazing progress for her and I can't wait to let her back out soon!
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Post by beccilouise on Aug 11, 2016 7:00:17 GMT -5
Hi Jeannes! Really glad you are making progress. Maybe try opening the cage and giving her the option to come out if she wants? It sounds like she has essentially been in solitary confinement for most of her life and so is becoming aggressive over her cage. In young birds, this can sometimes (though not always) be tempered by ensuring that the birds have time out of their cage every day, and rearranging the inside of the cage regularly. Unfortunately, it sounds like Starry has had a tough start to life. Just like with a ten year old human that has been neglected, this will come with numerous problems and trust will take an extremely long time to build. You are absolutely doing the right thing by being patient and taking it in small steps. Maybe, when you decide to move forward, it would also be a good idea to spend time with her in a room that is away from her cage? This might help temper her as you will be the familiar thing, and therefore the thing she will want to be closest to. Try to remember that her behaviour is not as a result of you, it is as a result of the neglect she suffered when she was younger and, unfortunately, you just happen to be the person in the way. I see this all the time in the teenagers I work with who have difficult home lives, and I have to remember that their aggression or verbal abuse is not aimed at me, it's because, all their lives, adults have taken their power away from them, and so adults are untrustworthy. It's my job to try to teach them that they are valued, and I will not treat them in the same way, but this can take years and years. I think quakers are significantly more adaptable than teenage humans, but be prepared for small moves forward and small moves backwards. She will have good days and bad days and it's really important that you don't beat yourself up over it. Just by giving her a new, loving home and believing she can be a better bird, you are already a far better human being than many of those who own animals (or have children) and neglect them. She will get there Good luck!
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Post by jeannes on Aug 11, 2016 21:46:45 GMT -5
She was out literally 12 hours a day everyday for 3 weeks. Then she starting the attacks and I can't let her out until it is resolved, safety issues. She is coming along great, although definitely in a bit of a bipolar way!
When she stops attacking my fingers when I go for the lock I will let her out again! We will then go into another room, as you suggested!
Today was definitely a bit of a bad day! But that is 100% ok with me! I have all the time in the world.
Thank you for the help and words of encouragement!
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