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Post by captainnapalm on Jun 28, 2016 8:33:26 GMT -5
Hi everyone,
We've owned our quaker parrot now for just over two years. He is a great little guy and we really appreciate him around however after getting him as a non-flighted baby we immediately let his wings grow in so he was flying almost all his life so far. At first we didn't mind him flying around because he was more stationary in general and less explorative but progressively he has been getting more curious and now he is just everywhere; crawling into bags, sneaking into bowls, playing with wallets/phones/rings, flying into kitchen, upstairs, basement, showers, you get the picture. That alone is manageable for us but as you all know quakers are adamant poopers and we cannot keep up just cleaning up all his droppings and the house is constantly a disaster. We have droppings all over the coffee tables, lamps, floor, chairs, couches, walls, fixtures, etc. and we cannot keep up with this any longer. With our first baby on the way we really need to make some changes.
We are considering two options:
1. We can clip his wings. We would ensure that the vet does this in a way so that he can still glide and roam around on and off his cage however he won't be able to take over the house like he has been. This will allow us to keep his cage door open at all times when we're around and give him the option of climbing out, playing on his play top and move around in the vicinity on the cage/ same room. The nice thing about this is we will be able to take him with us outside, he can spend time with me when I water the plants, garden, hang out in the back yard, sit on the deck, etc. so it would open up some possibilities for him but of course I fear that it would be a huge shocker for him and given that he was flighted all his life make him really depressed.
2. We can keep him flighted but strictly limit his out-of-cage time. Currently he is out for 2 to 5 hours a day when we're home. I could probably manage to have him out with me in the mornings for a half hour before work and about and hour in the afternoon to do as he pleases. Any longer than that and the place just gets too messy and he is too much for us to handle. This too has me worried because he is used to much more out of cage time that that. I also worry that it's not a good long term solution and that we will give in to his screaming and manipulating tactics and just let him stay out longer and longer when we're home so in the long run we go back to what it is now.
I would really appreciate some opinions on which option to go with. My goal is really to get him under control before we have our baby because I fear that my wife will just ask me to rehome hime if nothing gets solved when the baby comes. Im really curious to hear from those that have clipped wings on a quaker that was flighted for a long time and what the outcome was. I have an appointment with the vet this afternoon and could really use some opinions by then.
Thanks in advance!
M
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Post by aaron on Jun 28, 2016 9:35:55 GMT -5
We have a flighted Quaker, and I can certainly appreciate the challenge of the mess they can create. Unfortunately, I can't say we would consider either option you're posing, for precisely the reasons you've provided here. I think your concerns are definitely valid, so I will tell you how we have managed thus far. Cupcake has zones, and she is actively discouraged from hanging out anywhere else. Those zones are set up in a way that makes them easier to clean than other places. She is not fully compliant with the rules, but she is surprisingly cooperative, generally speaking. Unless she feels bored or ignored, she will generally stay within the boundaries we define. It can take quite a while to get them to understand where they are supposed to go and where they are not, but it does eventually happen if you work with them enough. Ultimately what happens is that there is still a huge amount of mess, but it is somewhat limited in scope. Cupcake is encouraged to stay with us while she is out. She can go where she wants to some degree, but if we leave the room, we call her with us and she follows, mostly because she wants to. We keep poop papers on hand, and when we see a dropping, we clean it up. Many of them are on our shoulders. We try to involve her in what we're doing so she feels included and has a desire to be near us. This way we can control how much exploration she does. In general, independent exploration is strongly discouraged unless we have approved the location. Again, it doesn't mean she always complies, but over time she has become quite compliant overall. There are certainly days where she is rebellious, but all in all, it's manageable. That said, I understand with a baby on a way, your capacity for putting up with a mess anywhere is less than ours, so you may want to investigate potty training your parrot. We haven't gone this route, but it is definitely possible, and many people find that it is actually quite easy and takes surprisingly little time. Parrots already have built in behaviors around pooping in the nest, so they are location-aware when they poop. From what I understand, they can be easily trained to poop in certain locations only. I can't speak from experience here, but it seems like the best option for you. Here is a link on how to accomplish this: theparrotuniversity.com/potty-training-your-bird-72-hoursWhatever you do, if you want to do what is best for the bird, the outcome is going to require a plan, patience and some effort. There's a chance that he would accept being clipped and be okay-- I'm sure that does happen... But I encourage you to find a solution where you work with your bird to modify behavior rather than forcing the situation. Good luck, and keep us posted on how you choose to proceed! |
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Post by captainnapalm on Jun 28, 2016 11:27:45 GMT -5
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Post by easttex on Jun 28, 2016 11:48:18 GMT -5
I agree with Aaron, though I couldn't have said it as well. For a flighted bird, I too would recommend exploring other options first. My personal feeling is that I would clip my bird if it was a matter of its own safety, but not for my convenience. Also, I would never take even a clipped bird outside without a harness or some other restraint. A bird that has not had a very severe clip (not recommended) can fly if startled, or if a gust of wind blows. Then, the bird is handicapped by its limited ability. Even a well-socialized bird may not return easily to its people, and may have to survive on its own for a while.
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Post by beccilouise on Jun 28, 2016 12:55:40 GMT -5
Hello! Aaron and Easttex have already given you great advice. Training in terms of flight is really important and strong recall training would really help you. The other option, one to consider VERY carefully and equip yourself knowledge-wise before you try it out, is the use of an avian fashions flight suit. These catch the bird poop and mean less mess, but will still require conditioning and training. It's also important to be aware that some birds will only tolerate these for short amounts of time and may take a while before they will poop while wearing one, so be careful of this in terms of hurting your little one, but it is an avenue to explore. The parrot wizard also has lots of good advice online and in his books about how to flight train birds.
Maya is recall and clicked trained (though currently showing complete apathy towards training session due to, in my belief, teenage hormones, so we are giving her a break from it for a bit), but using these commands and training techniques may really help you to keep your bird safer and your house cleaner! Good luck!
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Post by duckysmom on Jun 28, 2016 13:48:05 GMT -5
I know I am new hete but I have some thoughts on this. I was proud Mama of a macaw for 16 years. She was clipped for the first 5 years of her life. Having a bird thst large flying around a small house just wasn't safe for anyone. A larger house was a bit safer but all she ever did was glide to the floor and terrorize the dogs. Lol. Although we did once have to wrestle her out of a Christmas tree and she killed our ficus tree. But oh, well. We clipped her again after my grandson was born. She was bonded to my daughter and the jealousy was incredible! She only drew blood one time. I walked by her cage holding the baby and I still have a scar.
I know macaws are not quakers, but jealousy is jealousy. The babies safety is important too. And there are degrees of clipping. Ducky is clipped and will be for a while. Not due to mess, but for safety. There are a lot of people that come in and out of our house due to the health of Auntie, who is 88 years old. Caregivers, nurses, physical and occupational therapists. Not to mention a rambunctious 3 year old who doesn't get the meaning of close the door! We have a lot of windows and ceiling fans as well. I know to keep the fans off when he is out, but someone else may switch it on.
Ducky can get some lift and glide some and he seems to like to excercise that option if he sees me and wants to get closer or he wants to go back to his cage. But he can't get high enough to hit a fan or the higher windows. (I draw the shades on the lower ones).
This is a very personal decision for you. I know the mess is a pain, but training may make that a semi-moot point. Safety of both bird and baby are paramount and I hope you give your QP an opportunity to learn some boundries and hopefully accept the bundle of joy on the way.
And by the way, congratulations!
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Post by aaron on Jun 28, 2016 14:22:29 GMT -5
Duckysmom makes some good points about the baby's safety that I did not think about. You will undoubtedly encounter new behavioral issues as your attention is focused on this new member of the household and away from the bird. Parrots can definitely be very jealous, so for the safety of the baby, clipping might be a necessary measure at least temporarily. You obviously do not want the bird able to get himself over to the baby faster than you can catch up... All of that said, if you go the clipping route you should definitely go out of your way to involve the bird in your activities as much as you can to compensate for the change in his mobility. And when the baby arrives, you will want to make sure (as best you can) that the parrot does not feel at odds with the baby... One thing I read suggested bringing a crying baby doll into the home and pretending to fawn over it for weeks ahead of time so the bird is used to it and you can judge its reaction before there is a live human baby in the mix.  I swear I once read a really good article on how to introduce a newborn into a home with an established parrot, but I can't seem to find it... |
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Post by julianna on Jun 28, 2016 14:51:54 GMT -5
All of the advice given above is great. My Oscar is potty trained for the most part but he also does not fly. Whether you want a bird to fly or not is a choice only you can make. The reasons you have stated above are really good. There is good and bad to both sides.
Oscar has not flown pretty much since birth... so for me... trimming his wings is the way it should be.
Best of luck and congrats on the new baby.
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Post by captainnapalm on Jun 28, 2016 15:37:46 GMT -5
Everyone,
Thank you so much for the detailed responses. I decided to keep him flighted for now and will need to look into other options as you suggest.
I should have also mentioned that my pregnant wife is also going through some temporary health issues right now so she can't do anything around the house so the level of responsibility dropped on me lately was overwhelming, it's not that I'm lazy or inconvenienced in cleaning up after him, it's just a combination of him being more active as he's getting older, my wife being not so mobile, increased hours at work and baby on the way, all combined made me consider just clipping him until things around here improve a bit.
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Post by easttex on Jun 28, 2016 16:02:49 GMT -5
I hope my convenience comment did not come across as snide or judgmental. I didn't mean it that way. I was primarily thinking of my own situation, and I have the luxury of time and a lot of control over my birds' environment. As Julianna says, you have to make the choice yourself. You're obviously taking a very thoughtful approach and I doubt if anyone here will begrudge you if you ultimately decide you have to make some compromises. It sounds like you have a very full plate.
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Post by duckysmom on Jun 28, 2016 16:39:36 GMT -5
Easttex, I don't think you sounded judgemental at all.
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Post by beccilouise on Jun 29, 2016 1:16:37 GMT -5
I didn't consider the baby's safety either, and I agree that clipping is a very personal thing. It really suits some birds and not others so I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. Also, no decision is permanent. Clipped feathers grow back and full feathers can always be clipped, so the 'wrong' choice for your bird can always be reversed. Training has really helped to steady Maya during the first few months of adolescence (although it may be that we ain't seen nothing yet!) and to keep her obedient. She is not yet flighted but I want to give her the chance just to see if we are able to manage it.
It does sound like there's a lot going on in your house, which may also explain your birdie being into everything, either to gain attention or to take advantage of the opportunity. It must be quite a difficult and busy time for you right now, which may also influence your decision in the future and I think that is fine. It's about doing what is best for all of you to live together safely and peacefully. I hope your Auntie and your wife are both alright and that the strain of your situation eases with time. Best of luck!
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Post by biteybird on Jun 29, 2016 19:01:49 GMT -5
G'day and welcome, captainnapalm & family. I'm a bit late to this thread... It sounds like you're considering your options in a very methodical and diligent way, so well done for that. Some people rush to a decision without considering the implications thoroughly. After reading through what everyone's said, I agree that safety for all needs to be the top priority. I'm just wondering, perhaps you could: *gradually reduce the size of the area your quaker has access to by closing some doors? That might give you some more control. *gradually reduce the amount of time your quaker is out of the cage, or else pop him in and out of the cage in shorter 'bursts'? When you put him back in, give him a treat and then let him out again 5 minutes later & gradually extend the in-cage time - I'm thinking that this might ultimately make him more amenable to going back in there when it's necessary. *Re the poop - we have boxes of tissues at strategic points around the house and use them straight away when Bonnie does a poop (if we see her do it, that is). It's definitely harder to clean off once it's dried. Some people wear a towel/shawl across their shoulders to keep it off their clothes. One thing we find is that if Bonnie poops on the back of our shoulders and we don't realise, when we sit down on the couch the poop gets on the back of the couch.  So now I'm in the habit of checking my shoulders before I sit down. *if your quaker likes toys, could you put a playstand or toy area in each of the rooms he has access to? He might be tempted by them rather than getting into your other stuff. *give him your undivided attention for 10 minutes when he first comes out of the cage? Sometimes Bonnie is very miffed at my husband or I if we let her out but we're doing other things like looking at the computer/iPad. But she's pretty happy if I focus just on her for a short time, then get on with the other things I need to do. *consider the flightsuit/bird diaper by Avian fashions - a conditioning time period is needed, but worth a thought. I'm ordering another for Bonnie (the first one got accidentally thrown out), because she seemed to respond quite well to seeing/playing with it. Finally, congratulations on your pending arrival! I hope your wife starts to feel a bit better soon. |
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Post by Pappagallo on Aug 28, 2016 20:34:56 GMT -5
I have two 12 your old birds and I have always kept there wings clipped, but now I am more loose about it. Their flight feathers are in and because they grew up with clipped wings all the time, they don't fly everywhere. They do fly a bit but only to go from point A to point b. Most of the time when I have them out the prefer being on top of me so usually all the poop ends up on me haha! Maybe try clipping the wings for a while. Maybe with clipped wings he will be more interesting in hanging out with me. My birds do more climbing than flying.
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So now I'm in the habit of checking my shoulders before I sit down.