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Post by beccilouise on Nov 17, 2015 6:17:45 GMT -5
Thanks all. Byron had a really good morning yesterday, and was really sweet and affectionate. He seems to be having a pretty good morning today as well. However, I went to my seminar last night, and when my partner got home, he said Byron screamed on and off for about 20 minutes before he calmed down. In Byron's defence, he then sat quietly for 2 hours until I got home. Byron is my bird, and so I don't expect my partner to take him out or take care of him when I'm not there. But obviously, Byron doesn't know this, and the flat we live in belongs to my partner. He didn't really want a bird, but said yes we could have one because I wanted one so much. If he decides he can't live with Byron, he's obviously perfectly within his right to make that decision, but I would be really sad if we had to sell him. What can we do on the evenings I am busy to help Byron understand that my partner being home does not equal being out and on a shoulder?
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Post by aaron on Nov 17, 2015 10:32:27 GMT -5
Eventually, Byron will figure it out. When my stepdaughter gets home from school, she typically gets home before my wife and I, so she has her own key and comes home and gets started on her homework while she waits for us. For a very long time... many months... Cupcake would scream at her incessantly, because of course, she wanted to know why she wasn't being let out. But eventually she started to understand that the little human isn't going to let her of her cage for whatever reason and stopped screaming. Now she is perfectly quiet. It took a really long time though. Patience and persistence tends to be the name of the game with these birds when it comes to behavioral modification.
All of that said, if Byron only screamed for 20 minutes, that's a pretty big improvement. He's already realizing that screaming isn't going to accomplish anything in that scenario, it seems.
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Post by beccilouise on Nov 17, 2015 11:28:59 GMT -5
Ok, that makes me feel better. I had a long chat with my partner on the phone today and we decided:
- Byron doesn't sit on top of his cage any more, because that's where he tends to do most of his screaming
- Byron only comes out when I'm home
- If Byron screams, he is banished to another room for ten minutes or until he calms down, and then he's allowed back in.
I really, really want this to work out. He is such a gorgeous little bird. I felt a bit sorry for him yesterday, when he'd been a terror for 20 mins but really good for 2 HOURS! I think he is learning. It's just a case, like you say, of persistence, patience and being as consistent as possible with him. I put him in his cage while I had a bath today, and as I tiptoed past the living room door, I heard him practising saying 'hello!', 'no!' and singing 'somebody I used to know' (which is my 'i'm still in the house, Byron, don't worry!' song for when I'm cooking for cleaning) really out of key. When he realised I was standing outside, he did a couple of loud squeaks and stopped talking. I've heard of birds being 'embarrassed' to speak in front of their human flock until they feel they have totally got the word. I thought it was so cute. Clearly, both me and my partner want it to work out with this little bird. If we can be consistent, I'm sure he will be fine. Thank you for the reassurance!
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Post by aaron on Nov 17, 2015 14:48:58 GMT -5
I'd be wary of reacting to his screams by moving him to another room, because merely the activity of moving him could end up encouraging the behavior. In such a case, he's successfully gotten your attention, even if it's simply the attention required to pick his cage up and move it. There's definitely a question as to whether he can piece together the cause and effect to make the connection that now he is stuck in a different room because he screamed. He may simply be left with the impression that he successfully got you to come over because he screamed. I think the best thing to do is ignore, and then praise when he stops. I used to recommend punitive measures/time outs, although with the specific caveat that the punishment not last more than 3-5 minutes because I thought anything longer was counterproductive... but at this point I'm starting to think that any punitive response can be counterproductive. I do still cage Cupcake when she bites and draws blood, but very, very briefly, and only if I am able to catch it immediately when it happens. Their attention span is short-- they build connections based on very short periods of time. If the string of events has too long a duration, no connection (or the wrong one) will be made, it seems. At any rate, I am sure you guys will figure this out. Cupcake makes the most noise when she's in the shower with us, because it's loud in there, I think, and it makes her feel less self conscious about it. That's the only place where she does anything that sounds like it could be attempted speech. For whatever reason, it never develops into words, but she'll do a warbly mumbling kind of sound that she practices over and over. Only in the shower. These little birds' senses of self are very cute.  |
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Post by beccilouise on Nov 17, 2015 17:31:23 GMT -5
Hahaha, bless her! Ok, that's a good call about room changes. We've not had to move him to another room yet as he's not been that bad. My partner said he was better today. At one point, he had to get up and walk away, but then Byron stopped and has been fine since. I guess that's much better than going over to the cage to move it, right? I feel like, mostly, we're doing the right things. I will follow your advice and see what happens. He's been adorable with me today, as usual, because he gets lots of love and attention. It would be great if he did learn to speak, as I feel it would make him appeal more to my partner! But he already seems really keen to make sure we can train Byron so he can stay. It'll take time, but I'm growing in confidence that he will learn.
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Post by biteybird on Nov 18, 2015 3:38:02 GMT -5
We've found it really hard to not respond to Bonnie's squawking...I constantly have to remind myself and hubby that we mustn't react AT ALL to her carrying on (e.g., we shouldn't say "be quiet" and we must not even glance in her direction, because she is watching for any eye contact whatsoever, which seems to reinforce the noisiness).
I think Aaron is right about keeping any 'punishments' really short (under 5 minutes), as their attention spans are short and you don't want them making incorrect associations about what is happening.
You might want your partner to bond with Byron too - I guess it's up to him how he would feel about this - but if that's the case, then I would encourage out-of-cage time when you are not home. We've been having trouble with Bonnie biting my hubby just recently (she's nearly 2) after her adult hormones kicked in, but other than that problem she has been equally bonded with both of us. The only rule is that she has to behave first (i.e., be quiet) before coming out of the cage.
Edit: I forgot to say that 20 minutes of screaming is actually not bad for a quaker - Bonnie can go for hours if the mood takes her, so you're lucky!  |
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Post by beccilouise on Nov 18, 2015 3:56:21 GMT -5
ok, thanks  He's not been too bad in terms of squawk level so far and it normally stops when we ignore it. I think the issue is that Byron is my bird and David doesn't want to feel that he HAS to come home and get the bird out to play. However, when I'm home, we both play with him, so he does get attention from both of us. I've been very wary of 'punishments' as you mention, as I know that birds respond better to positive reinforcement and learn about negative behaviour, as you say, through the lack of reaction. Over the last couple of days, he's actually been ok. I think because we are generally quite a quiet household (no kids, we don't have the TV on loud etc) he is beginning to realise what he needs to do to fit in. All these suggestions are really useful though, it helps to remind me I'm doing the right thing and that, if I'm consistent, Byron will learn. I think we both want this to work out and to teach Byron how to be a good member of our family. I am fully aware it will not eliminate his screaming altogether, and that he will have loud days. Byron's been home for nearly three weeks now and seems very settled and pretty happy. I want to start acclimatising him to other people so he's used to being handled and also to reduce territoriality and displays of aggression when he reaches adolescence. Any reccommendations on the best way to introduce him to new people? |
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Post by aaron on Nov 18, 2015 18:25:06 GMT -5
Sounds like things are going well. While I think it'll be better in the long run if David allows out-of-cage time when you are not home, it will be hard for Byron to understand if he is inconsistent about it. So, I think for now, what you are doing is a good approach. Get Byron used to not being let out when David is home, but continue making sure that David is well socialized with Byron when you are both home. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of tips when it comes to introductions to new people, but the others might.
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He's not been too bad in terms of squawk level so far and it normally stops when we ignore it. I think the issue is that Byron is my bird and David doesn't want to feel that he HAS to come home and get the bird out to play. However, when I'm home, we both play with him, so he does get attention from both of us. I've been very wary of 'punishments' as you mention, as I know that birds respond better to positive reinforcement and learn about negative behaviour, as you say, through the lack of reaction. Over the last couple of days, he's actually been ok. I think because we are generally quite a quiet household (no kids, we don't have the TV on loud etc) he is beginning to realise what he needs to do to fit in.