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Post by siobhan on Aug 9, 2016 15:28:44 GMT -5
Seems like every betta dies of dropsy, sooner or later. My latest, Cyril, started showing signs of it a few days ago and is going downhill fast, poor baby. It's fatal and there's no really effective treatment. It also takes a while, and I have euthanized a couple of bettas to prevent needless suffering, but I really hate that and don't have the stomach for it after the last time, when the poor fish struggled and fought the anesthesia. As long as Cyril still shows some spirit and fight, I'm going to let him be.
I'm trying to decide, since I have fair warning that he's leaving us soon, whether to get another betta for that tank after he's gone or move some of the guppies over and give up on bettas. It's so hard to walk past them at Walmart and Petsmart, in their tiny cups, when I know I can give them a better life. The guppies sort of overbred, but on the other hand, I've lost a few, too, and while there are a lot of them for that tank, they don't seem to be fighting over food or needing their tank cleaned any more often than weekly. As my brother pointed out, if I move some out, they'll just fill up their tank again and the moved ones will fill up THEIR tank, whereas the way it is, they seem to be sort of self-regulating like the snails do.
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Post by biteybird on Aug 10, 2016 7:01:17 GMT -5
Poor Cyril. I'm sure whatever you decide (re getting more bettas or not) will be the right thing, as you seem very good at weighing up the pros and cons.
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Post by aaron on Aug 10, 2016 10:33:07 GMT -5
Sorry to hear about Cyril! Ugh... having to watch fish die is by far my least favorite thing about having fish, and that's saying a lot, considering how much I dislike tank maintenance. We have had some situations where we strongly considered euthanasia, but after reading too many horror stories that sound similar to what you've described here, we decided we couldn't do it.
Sometimes I wonder about what it's going to be like when my 12" Cichlid reaches the end of his lifespan... I hope, primarily for his sake, but also for mine, that it will not be drawn out or particularly painful or stressful. Having to watch that big guy suffer extensively would be extremely rough for us.
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Post by siobhan on Aug 10, 2016 13:37:06 GMT -5
Cyril was gone when I got home from work last night, and I don't think he'd been gone long because the snails were just gathering up for clean-up duty. THAT is my least favorite thing about having fish, or maybe I should say, about having snails. I really like the snails and think they're interesting to watch, and I know they mean well with their clean-up crew, but ewwwww. It's so awful to come home and discover a fish has died some hours previous and the snails have already made serious inroads into disposing of the body. At least Cyril didn't suffer long. I had one betta who took weeks to die from dropsy, and he got more and more miserable and I didn't know what to do. I asked for advice on a fish forum and all their advice was horrifying. Freeze him to death. Chop off his head. REALLY! Then a Facebook friend, who I didn't even know had fish, told me to get toothache liquid at the drugstore, and even helpfully included a photo of the package, and put a few drops in a glass of water and gently lower the fish into it. He just goes to sleep and it only takes a minute or two, and if you do it right, he won't struggle or even realize what's happening. And it worked beautifully. With the second fish, I accidentally put too much in the water, and he did know what was happening, and that's why he struggled. It's hard to get the right amount with those tiny toothache medicine bottles. But I didn't want poor Cyril to suffer, either, and I'm glad he quietly passed on his own so I didn't have to face doing that again.
I've decided to get another betta, because my brother is right, and separating the guppies will just mean I have two crowded tanks instead of one. This way, the weaker ones aren't surviving, and it's crowded but not overcrowded, I don't think. I'm going to Petsmart after work and will let a betta choose me. I'm thinking maybe I'll get a female, because they're not as spectacular as the males and I don't think people are as apt to buy them, so they spend even longer trapped in tiny cups than the boys do. Generally, I just walk up the shelf with the cups and wait to see which fish zooms over to check me out, and that's the one I buy.
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Post by aaron on Aug 10, 2016 13:41:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I am familiar with the partially eaten body phenomenon as well... We have historically kept a number of bottom feeders so as soon as anyone died they would be on the cleanup job. Not the coolest. Yeah, the method you are describing sounds like the one that we were considering... It was specifically calling for clove oil (which can be used for toothaches), but there were a number of other options as well... It does seem like it can go quite well, but we couldn't handle the notion of having to live the stories of what happens when it doesn't go well... Good luck on finding your new betta friend!
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Post by siobhan on Aug 10, 2016 14:39:45 GMT -5
This toothache medicine is largely clove oil, that's why my friend suggested this particular brand. Cyril was only sick for about a week and didn't seem to feel really bad until the last couple of days. He was still eating until night before last, when he showed no interest in his supper and didn't want his breakfast yesterday morning. He was hanging in the water next to the heater, so I turned up the temperature to make him more comfortable. Unfortunately, I've seen this so many times that I knew he was sick and what it was as soon as the very first symptom appeared. Like all us bird parents are obsessed with poop and feather condition, fish parents know every detail of what is normal appearance and behavior and what is not. I can even tell when a guppy isn't feeling well. I have one little guy who is malformed, sort of the Hunchback of Notre Dame of the tank, and yet he keeps on eating and swimming and has even, apparently, fathered some of the babies because one of the babies has the exact same malformed body.
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Post by aaron on Aug 10, 2016 17:05:02 GMT -5
Yeah, dropsy is a pain. I've lost a number of fish friends to it. That's cute that you can see the genetic traits passed down from the little hunchback guy. My big guy has a persistent intestinal infection right now... I've been alternating between fasting him and feeding him high-garlic content food, which seems to help, but it doesn't make it go away entirely. I'm sure if the water quality was more pristine he'd be able to kick it. I think I need to start doing water changes twice a week until he's better... if that doesn't work I'll need to look into medicated food, which I'd like to avoid if possible.
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Post by siobhan on Aug 11, 2016 12:22:54 GMT -5
I picked up a little female betta yesterday and gave her Cyril's tank. She was pushed back on the shelf, sitting in the shadows, where she would have been ignored for who knows how long. When I put her in the tank, after making sure the water temps were roughly equal, she was very tentative and bewildered for a while. Then she started exploring, encountered a snail and was visibly startled (LOL). Encountered another and another, because there are lots of snails, and then got nosy and pushed a few of them around to see what they'd do. They did what snails do, which is ooze along and ignore everything. I'm hoping to teach her to go into the floating log for meals, as Cyril did, because that helps me keep track of exactly how much a fish is eating so I know immediately if her appetite flags, or if I'm not giving her enough. She's a tiny thing, probably very young, so I only gave her two pellets for breakfast. Cyril got three, but he was much bigger.
I do hope your big guy gets well soon. That can't be fun for either of you.
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Post by aaron on Aug 30, 2016 22:22:43 GMT -5
The big guy does seem to be doing better, actually. I just still wish he had an even bigger tank. He can pick up speed in the newer tank and he bumps into the glass sometimes and hurts his lip. I'm pretty sure that means he needs more space... but I can't give him any more space. This is the best I can do in our current scenario.
How is your new little betta doing nowadays? Does she have a name?
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Post by siobhan on Aug 31, 2016 12:05:03 GMT -5
Her name is Nadine (chosen in consultation with Clyde, who insists on approving these things). She's long since adjusted and enjoys her little fiefdom very much. Still annoys the snails. And has learned to wait in her log for her breakfast and dinner. If she sees me coming and isn't in the log, she comes to it. Bettas are really pretty smart. And she has a sister now. A Facebook friend suggested, since the tank is 10 gallons, that I could put in a divider and get a second fish and thereby save two from a cup instead of only one. I bought a divider and it simply would not stay put, no matter how carefully I followed instructions. But because I assumed it would be simple to install, I had already bought a second female betta and there she was in her cup on top of the dryer, waiting, with nowhere to go. Fortunately, I had a five-gallon tank that was formerly home to a different betta, but that I had emptied and put away when he died several months ago, after I decided two tanks was enough work in addition to seven birds and two dogs and a full time job and playing in a band. LOL So I dug out the small tank and cleaned it up and set it up -- I have a friend who has a whole fish ROOM and he once told me "never throw away fish stuff," so I had a pump and heater and gravel and decorations stashed, too -- and put her in that. Her name is Wilma, suggested by a friend and approved by Clyde. I was going to then change Nadine's name to Betty (Flintstones, anyone?) but Clyde disapproved, so she has remained Nadine. Wilma is oddly shaped, which I didn't notice in the store, and at first I was afraid she had one of those awful betta sicknesses and wouldn't live long, but she's always interested in her food and she swims around without any problem and she also likes to bug her snails, so I've concluded she's just ... shaped oddly.
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Post by aaron on Aug 31, 2016 22:46:18 GMT -5
Those dividers are so dang annoying to install! I have never been able to get one to stay put either. Nadine is a very nice name-- I think Clyde made a good choice! And I love that his input is so critical in such decisions A fish room sounds overwhelming I wish I had a tank that was more fun, and less stress and guilt
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Post by siobhan on Sept 1, 2016 11:51:21 GMT -5
My fish room friend tells me it takes an entire day of hard labor just to do the water changes and cleaning in his fish room. Egad. AND he has a 'too!!!! I don't know how he gets anything else done. LOL However, he's a wealth of information any time I have a question or problem and he has, bless him, provided me with stuff like a replacement heater or pump when one of mine went bad. He gave me my first four snails and one of my tanks and a stand, too.
And after so much angst trying to get a guppy colony to thrive, and watching the poor things die, and getting new ones, and so on, finally my guppy tank is doing well. I was afraid they'd overpopulate, but like the snails, they seem to be self-regulating. And some of the babies are almost grown now and have turned out to be really gorgeous. Alpha Male, who is silver with a spectacular black fan tail, and Mama Fish, who is mostly silver with a hint of yellow-gold when the light hits her just right, produced babies who are silver, babies who are gold, babies with flecks of black in their tails, babies with fan tails and babies with regular tails. Quite a bewildering variety. I have nearly-grown babies, half-grown babies and small babies, but no brand new babies for a while now, so there won't be too many at a time.
Honestly, I worry over the fish just as much as the birds, though keeping their tanks clean isn't, of course, as much work as cleaning up after seven birds, and the fish don't require sitting on my lap and ordering me around. Still, every time I think I've had it and I'm going to give up on fish, I can't do it. I really like having them.
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Post by aaron on Sept 5, 2016 23:05:35 GMT -5
It's great to have such a helpful resource! I have a friend who is an expert in fish keeping (ran his own custom aquarium business for a while) and he has helped, but there's only so much he can do for my situation, since the real solution is a bigger tank, and I can't do that. At any rate, I think if I had to spend a whole day doing water changes I might lose my mind. It's very interesting that your guppy tank is self regulating. I would never have guessed that would happen. I worry about my fish a lot too, although to some degree I have to turn it off or it would really stress me out... But I still feel guilty whenever I look at his big fish face. Blah!
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Post by siobhan on Sept 6, 2016 10:51:55 GMT -5
My brother insisted the guppies would not regulate -- he raised guppies when he was a teenager but that was a long time ago, LOL, and maybe he doesn't remember as clearly as he thinks he does. The most spectacular of the babies is as big as his daddy now and is probably providing some competition for the ladies' attention. Somebody, and it may have been him, bit a piece out of Alpha Male's tail. Of course, that might also have been Mama Fish, who was very tired of him bugging her all the time.
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Post by aaron on Sept 6, 2016 17:51:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I find it quite remarkable that they are. Maybe once the tank gets to a certain level of population any new eggs get eaten? I know that if you have a tank where it is hard to find places to lay eggs that are safe from other fish eating them, the population tends to stay in check... We had a tank several years ago with what I thought were guppies but I was not the one managing it, and initially we had a large rock sort of gravel that allowed the fish to lay their eggs in between the rocks and protect them, and the population went way out of control, but when we changed the gravel type to be more fine and eliminated hiding places, it stopped. Of course at that point we already had way more guppies than we knew what to do with (luckily someone was willing to take them).
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