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Post by beccilouise on Dec 14, 2015 13:35:47 GMT -5
Hello all,
Sorry, I seem to be posting a lot, just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. Over the last two days, Byron's little happy-go-lucky demeanour seems to be shifting. He's about six months old now, and I know that's the time the 'terrible twos' start to settle in. He's not been really bad, but he is beginning to display a few lunging behaviours, particularly at my partner, although there's been the odd occasion when he's squeezed my finger a little too hard. We have responded in the following way:
- Too hard a squeeze when on the finger has resulted in an 'earthquake' shake and the word 'gentle' - Too hard a squeeze when on the shoulder has resulted in an 'earthquake' shake, the word 'gentle' and removal from the shoulder. (we are now being careful about shoulder time) - Lunging behavior is reprimanded with a cage time out for two - four minutes, after which I start again as if nothing has happened. - when he 'kisses' or beaks our fingers or cheeks gentle, I tell him he's a good boy and lavish him with praise.
We haven't yet found a treat he responds to well, but I may try sunflower seeds provided it doesn't require me to give him loads. Or maybe a mouthful of millet. We've also been very careful to moderate his diet. He gets:
- A bowl of pellets (every day) - a mix I make myself of cooked peas, sweet potato, carrot, kale and quinoa in with mixed pulses (every day, and I sprinkle crushed oyster shells into this to boost calcium levels) - egg (once a week) - millet (every two or three weeks)
We've also been ensuring he gets 10-12 hours of darkness a night. I know it's really important, through phases of hormonal aggression, to ensure they remain hand tame. I've been working on stick training him with a T-bar so I can get him out of his cage if he becomes territorial of it, but he's not used to it yet and nor is he particularly protective over his cage at the moment.
Is there anything else I should be doing to moderate his behaviours? What else can I expect from this phase of his growth? Thanks again! Sorry for all the questions. I have a million books, all of which I've consulted, but it's good to hear people's different experiences and how they personally handled it. |
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Post by aaron on Dec 14, 2015 16:10:31 GMT -5
No need to apologize for posting! That's what this forum is for! Your posts are particularly detailed, too, which is good for providing educational matieral for others as well! So you are contributing by asking these questions. Don't hesitate to post.  Six months is pretty early, but it's certainly possible that hormones are setting in. I would say with Cupcake we didn't really see much in the way of hormone-related aggression until she was around closer to 1.5 years old, but obviously this varies. At any rate, it sounds like you are handling all of this well. Look for lots of opportunities to inspire and praise good behavior. This goes a really long way. Diet sounds good. Sleep schedule sounds good. Avoiding nesting behaviors is a good thing to watch out for, as I think we've already discussed. You know, these little guys always seem to throw a curve ball. So I guess be ready to adapt! But it sounds like you have all of your bases covered. Maybe the others will have additional thoughts. |
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kbearx
Hatchling
I have a green male Quaker named Quake hatchdate approx. April 26th, 2015. A blue female coming soon
Posts: 3 
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Post by kbearx on Dec 14, 2015 16:17:08 GMT -5
Hi! The terrible twos can be tough; my bird Quake went through it recently. You're doing everything right as far as I know! You might want to try table food as a treat, like a little piece of pasta, especially if your bird sees you eat it. If they've bonded with you at all, they definitely like eating whatever you're eating and I've found that they love the taste of things like tortillas, whole grain bread, even tiny bits of chicken too. Of course things like that should be given in small amounts, but they make great treats.
With my bird's terrible two's, we ended up handling him for shorter periods of time. We opened the cage door, allowed him to choose when to come out, and then would offer a hand to step up onto or a nice cheek rub. If he responded nicely, he got lots of praise and we would play with him as long as he was nice and was interested in playing. If he bit, screamed, etc. he got a firm "no," and we would walk away. A few minutes later, if he was being pleasant and not screaming or throwing toys, we would come back and talk to him and try petting him again. If he was misbehaving, he was ignored or told, "no." While changing out his food and water, I would continue despite his lunging attacks and say, "no," and if he was trying to chase and bite my hand a lot I would put one finger gently on his beak, push back gently but firmly and say "no bite." Another thing that stops biting in its tracks is when I gently place my whole hand on top of him and gently press him down so his chest and head are level with his feet, and holding it till he calms down. That worked amazingly well for my Quake since he can't bite or anything like that.
It seemed to work, since he's now 8 months old and the sweetest thing ever. He will leave his cage top and walk around looking for me to pick him up if I'm not behind a closed door, and if I don't notice him he'll tickle my feet until I pick him up and pet him. He gives kisses, leans into my fingers when I pet him, eats from my hand, even lets me rub his legs and wherever else I want. I can put my hand in his cage wherever I want and he shows neither fear nor aggression, though he doesn't like to be picked up in his cage. So rest assured- it will end! And, Byron will probably have good days in the midst of the terrible twos, so you'll get little breaks where you have your sweet baby back. Good luck!
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Post by easttex on Dec 14, 2015 16:46:05 GMT -5
I want to elaborate a little on kbearx' post, for people who are not familiar with birds and might misconstrue things a little. You can't be too careful where these little guys are concerned. Their beaks are very sensitive, and you should never apply much force, especially with a tap. If you lightly scrape a fingernail on it, they will probably like that a lot, and that tells you how sensitive they are. Also, I would not recommend pressing down on a bird from above. They can suffocate quite easily whenever their chests do not have the freedom to expand, so it's probably best not to incorporate that one into your routine. |
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Post by aaron on Dec 14, 2015 19:05:49 GMT -5
I agree with Easttex-- I would be very careful with techniques where you are pushing down on the bird like that. I've done that with Cupcake to calm her down before, but you have to be really careful and I wouldn't do it for more than a second or two. Furthermore, using force or restraint to control the bird may backfire in the long run and cause further behavioral problems. Best to work with them without giving them the impression that you are dominating them. They are prey animals, after all. This isn't something that we do any more. That said, there is definitely some good advice in this post as well. Also, I don't mean to burst any bubbles -- but at the age of 8 months, you're probably just getting started. At that age, there's a lot more development to occur when it comes to hormones (a lot of Quakers haven't even begun to hit sexual maturity at that age), so you've probably only just scratched the surface when it comes to the behavioral impact that hormonal changes tend to have. If you've made it to the age of say... 4 years and behavior is consistent, then you can start to rest easy a bit, but at 8 months, I'd be prepared for more fun with hormones  |
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Post by zim on Dec 14, 2015 19:51:46 GMT -5
Also, I don't mean to burst any bubbles -- but at the age of 8 months, you're probably just getting started. At that age, there's a lot more development to occur when it comes to hormones (a lot of Quakers haven't even begun to hit sexual maturity at that age), so you've probably only just scratched the surface when it comes to the behavioral impact that hormonal changes tend to have. If you've made it to the age of say... 4 years and behavior is consistent, then you can start to rest easy a bit, but at 8 months, I'd be prepared for more fun with hormones You're making me dread going through this experience next year  |
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Post by Jan and Shah on Dec 14, 2015 20:01:43 GMT -5
Sorry but I cant remember how long you have had your quaker. I would suggest that he is "trying it on" just to see how far he can get. Rules will need to be set at this time and you are doing very well in letting him know that he has to respect you. With no disrespect to anyone on this forum, do not put your hand over the top of your bird to press him down. You are dealing with a prey animal and, as Aaron says, this could cause further problems down the track. You are doing really well with him - it will just need a lot of reinforcing. Ask as many questions as you like - we are all here to help and support you.
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Post by aaron on Dec 15, 2015 1:07:02 GMT -5
Also, I don't mean to burst any bubbles -- but at the age of 8 months, you're probably just getting started. At that age, there's a lot more development to occur when it comes to hormones (a lot of Quakers haven't even begun to hit sexual maturity at that age), so you've probably only just scratched the surface when it comes to the behavioral impact that hormonal changes tend to have. If you've made it to the age of say... 4 years and behavior is consistent, then you can start to rest easy a bit, but at 8 months, I'd be prepared for more fun with hormones You're making me dread going through this experience next year Haha... Sorry! It doesn't have to be that bad. For us, at least, once we did all of the things to minimize hormonal behavior, it became quite manageable... even in the springtime Cupcake is not that hormonal. I know it isn't always like that... Some birds are more challenging then others... there's definitely some component of luck in it all. I tend stress the importance of learning about hormones because things can go very wrong if you don't know what you're doing, and it's good for bird owners to be ready for the inevitable changes in behavior. But most of the time if you do things right, it's not too bad, it seems. |
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Post by beccilouise on Dec 15, 2015 3:04:51 GMT -5
Thanks guys! This is really useful! I've been advised strongly to be very, very careful using any kind of forceful, physical sanction with Quakers as they are a) so small and their bones can be so easily broken (apparently it takes less pressure to break a quaker's leg than it does to break a cocktail stick! and b) are prey animals, so even if they are physically unharmed, it can cause them a lot of stress. The only physical restraint I have ever used with Byron is physically picking him up (if he has flown off in fear and I am worried about him being on the floor) or gently cupping my hand over his head (not holding his head, just a little away from his head) if he needs immediately calming down (mostly if he's seen a lion on the TV!)However, I've tried not to do this recently as I'm concerned it will stress him out more because he might feel like it's a great big mouth trying to eat him! The vast majority of calming down technique I have used is putting him in his cage and leaving the room. He's still a very sweet little bird, but I know that hormones can cause them to be challenging and I felt if I could get a good routine established with him now, it would stand us in good stead for the future. Thanks for the note on nesting materials aaron! He savaged a tissue yesterday, and it was while he was doing this that my partner tried to pet him and he lunged. So no more tissue toys for Byron! I've been very careful not to put any nest like toys or nesting materials in Byron's cage. He does have a paper role to chew, but I may remove this if he becomes territorial over it. However, monitoring nesting materials outside the cage is also a really good idea. Thanks so much for the suggestion. Jan and Shah, I've had Byron since the beginning of November, so just over a month. It's entirely possible, as you say, he's just being a child and pushing boundaries. But I'm a teacher, so I'm very good at handling this! I will not be pushed around by an 18g bird! haha. Thanks so much again for your help, everyone. I really appreciate it |
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Post by Jan and Shah on Dec 15, 2015 3:32:23 GMT -5
Hold on Beccilouise, I have to stop laughing at your comment "I will not be pushed around by an 18g bird". We all said that in the early days of quaker slavery. Not only does Shah push me around, but the dog (who weighs just over 4kgs) and the pony push me around. I am on the bottom rung of the ladder but I valiantly struggle to get to the top rung Good luck with Byron (love the name) - you really are doing all the right things. |
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Post by easttex on Dec 15, 2015 5:14:35 GMT -5
I, too, wondered how long you would be able to hang onto the delusion that you will remain in charge, beccilouise. I don't think size, or even temperament, enters into it. When it finally does happen, just embrace the servitude. It's mutually rewarding. |
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Post by beccilouise on Dec 15, 2015 5:18:09 GMT -5
Hahaha, yes, I probably am delusional. Our lovely little pet rabbit pushes me around! She's an absolute princess. Sometimes I wonder in my home who has domesticated who! Oh well Byron was lovely this morning, a very well behaved little bird. He lunged occasionally, but when I earthquaked him a little and said 'gentle' he gave kisses and cheek rubs more amicably. He's not 6 months though. I've got a lot more hormones to come just yet! |
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Post by aaron on Dec 15, 2015 10:34:52 GMT -5
Yeah, unfortunately I will have to stand behind the fact of the matter as well-- after a certain point, these birds are in control. You can work with them and achieve a balance, in which you maintain some semblance of control from day to day, but they can wrench it back whenever it suits their little bird agenda... and then you're the one who has to deal with an ornery bird if you don't comply. It's a very compelling strategy they have But as easttex notes, it's all quite rewarding... thank goodness |
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Post by julianna on Dec 15, 2015 12:15:08 GMT -5
I find the "earthquake" move very effective. Oscar would always try and stop me from having my coffee but once I used the earthquake a few times... he has stopped completely.
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Post by beccilouise on Dec 16, 2015 6:08:54 GMT -5
I'm sure we'll all be fine. Good to hear the earthquake move is so effective for some. It's beginning to have an impact on Byron, though he's becoming a little defensive of me around David. We are trying to give him joint cuddles and kisses when we are both around to teach him he doesn't have to be jealous. I'm beginning to see that 'birdie's in charge' attitude in him! Possibly, I will just have to sigh and accept I am the pet and he is the owner!
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